Kel Tec P-11 Part 2
Following up in the string of long overdue range reviews . . . comes the range report of the Kel Tec P-11. As you’ll recall, I purchased a couple (one black, one olive and black - his and hers if you want) as part of the Guns at Cost sale earlier this year in honor of the 2nd Amendment.
Well, I’ve had it now for a little over 2 months and in that time have formed some definite opinions on this little marvel as a day to day summer carry gun. But first, for the range review.
Range Report
The first shots I took, unfortunately at 25 yards, weren’t well recieved. Using 147 grain Hydra Shocks, I sent 10 rounds down range. None . . . I repeat none . . . landed on the target (or target frame for that matter). Now, of course, this is a compact carry gun, and one would presume that your not going to pull it and shoot it at a target 25 yards away, but still.
The Kel Tec Users Group has a whole list of recommended fixes for the gun. I can see how they are necessary. The trigger is stiff stiff stiff. And heavy. Heck, its got to be at least 10 pounds. That combined with my first time shooting it resulted in 10 wasted rounds. Seeing this, and still in shock over the cost of a 20 round box of Hydra shocks ($17.95) I decided to move on to the cheaper generic range ammo (125 (i believe) grain FMJ) at $11.95 for a box of 50. And I moved the target closer . . . to 10 yards, and all the shots landed on the target…not in a pretty cloverleaf or anything . . . . but in about a 5 inch spread. Not great, but it certainly will get the job done.
My brother actually has a theory here that has nothing to do with it being a new gun with a stiff trigger . . . he thinks that the 147 grain Hydrashocks are too heavy for such as small barrel. Any thoughts???????
Of course, the shooting isn’t all bad. I am always surprised at how light the recoil on a 9mm is - but was expecting such a small gun to have just a bit more kick. There was none. No recoil really at all - which makes it very easy for a woman or anyone else to control close range shots and get back on target. But, you better make sure you get the job done. The action/slide is very very stiff. I don’t doubt this thing will eat all sorts of ammo, but if your a small woman, you might want your boyfriend to rack the slide. And don’t bother getting a spare mag. You won’t need it (at least not in a gun fight) as there is simply no way to do quick elegant magazine change.
Carry Report
When I picked the gun up, I was a bit disappointed in that - in a holster - it left a pretty distinguished print on my front pant pocket. The gun itself is small, but its neither featherweight (when loaded) or small enough to disappear in the front pocket holster of a business suit. The solutions, I think, is to add the Kel Tec Clip (ordered, on its way). Once it arrives, I’ll clue you in on that. In the meantime though, I have pretty much carried it every day, every where, outside of work and DC (I work in DC so . . . . ) In a pair of jeans, or cargo shorts/pants, or anything with a heavier durable fabric, the gun itself just disappears.
The one complaint I would have with it, if there were any, is that after a relatively short time of carrying and shooting it (just a few days over 2 months) there is already signs of wear showing. For instrance, look at this slide lock
Now true, it largely a plastic framed gun and this is pretty minor in consequential damage to a part that gets handled perhaps more than any other on the gun. But still, the finish shouldn’t already be rubbing off. Here’s another view, with different lighting so you can clearly see what I mean.
That said, it is a pretty good gun and one I feel very comfortable carrying . . . especially now after having shot a few rounds through it and gotten a feel for how it shoots.
WHen I posted about it last time, there were some questions, so maybe I can try to respond them further here.
I’m thinking about buying one, but the gap between the “frame” and the slide, visible in the pic above, kinda puts me off. Anyone have any thoughts on how bad that might be? I’m thinking it’s a lint trap, but I’m hoping I’m wrong.
Yes, the space is real. As this picture demonstrates . . . but I haven’t noticed it being a lint trap. Rather, I’ve had much bigger problems with dirt getting stuck on the back sight.
Roland had this to say
Is that actually a gap, or just some weird reflection? It can’t be seen in the close-up or the back lit photo in front of the window. It does look like bunny fur though.
I actually responded that it was my flash. I was wrong.
Yes, you can see right through the gun under the barrel, though so far that hasn’t caused any problems or accumulated much lint.
All in all, I think its a great little gun that you can manage to take with you everywhere. In this day and age of increased personal security awareness, I’d say its as vital as your Amex card. Don’t leave home with out it.
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KelTecs are what they are… I love my p32, but when I’m carrying it I make sure I take it down and give it a quick brush-off once a week. I also barely oil it, because in my pocket which is where I normally carry it, it does collect lint. Now, it doesn’t seem to affect the functioning, since I’ve carried it for a few weeks without cleaning then taken it to the range. It works fine for the first 40-50 rounds and then starts getting jammy… but they all kinda do that. I’d assume the P11 is similar to the P32 in that it will be reliable as long as its kept clean.
I’m surprised you didn’t hit the target at 25 yards though… I’m guessing the sights are similar if not better than those on my p32, and I can still at least hit paper at 25 yards. I’ve used everything from federal hydrashock to generic white-box to crap range reloads… and it has always shot at least a torso-sized pattern, plus or minus a few fliers, out to 25 yards. Of course, past that its pretty much no-go.
Comment by Gregory Morris — July 25, 2008 @ 7:38 am
I bought my P380 from a man who couldn’t keep it on paper at 7 yards (old eyes/small sights/can’t keep still). It’s about a 3″ group at that range for me.
Lint: if you blow down the hole for the barrel, you might be surprised what flies out the bottom of the trigger group.
Comment by Vote — July 25, 2008 @ 9:02 am
Greg
Yeah. It was real surprising to me. I ran the box of 50 through at 10 yards and the groups were decent size - like I said about a 5 inch spread. No problems really with it jamming, it seemed to eat everything I fed it. I think the big issue was just getting used to the heavy trigger - which in a pocket gun that doesn’t have an external safety is a good thing in my mind. If I need to use it in an emergency . . . then its going to be up close and I’ll be pulling for all I’m worth. A 50 yard bullseye target gun this is not though.
Comment by Countertop — July 25, 2008 @ 10:36 am
I wouldn’t use Hydrashok in any barrel under 4″. A large bullet is just naturally slower, and if it doesn’t go fast enough to open up, you have just wasted your time and maybe your life.
I carry 124-gr NATO-headstamped ball ammo. It is VERY fast in a full-size 5″ barrel, and ADEQUATELY fast in the 3″ P11 barrel. You DO want to carry ball in a P11 for reliability.
How do I do with mine? For a $195 pistol, just fine. I recently qualified with it on a police seven-stage course, keeping all rounds in the K5 area of a T28 silhouette as required for my retired LEO National Carry card. It was the first time I ever tried to qualify with anything except a full-size duty weapon (usually my Glock Mdl 22). I did get a nasty slide bite on the first round fired from behind a barricade, but it didn’t ruin my day or my score.
After qualifying at 100%, I would take the P11 equally to any Glock, or even my PP. On an IPSC metal-silhouette course, I can ring the 25-yard duck silhouette almost every time shooting quite quickly, and I LOVE the little double-stack mags.
Saved the best part for last: since the P11 can take S&W Model 5906 mags, as does my Kel-Tec Sub Rifle 2000, I have a fine companion pair for about $500!
Comment by Rivrdog — July 25, 2008 @ 3:38 pm
I picked up a PF-9 a while back - same action as the 11, just a thinner grip frame - because I needed something more than a 380, but not as big as my usual carry piece - a .45 USP in a shoulder rig. The Kel-Tec clip works great; I frequently wear the gun with a tux, and a couple of times when I’ve forgotten and removed my jacket off stage no one noticed it, mostly because it’s black, like the tux, and the clip keeps it low.
The trigger does suck, and there’s not a lot that will improve it greatly, but with some practice I was able to keep a magazine-full on a 9″ paper plate at 12-15 yards, which is what I got the gun for. Mine seems to like Federal 9BP ammo.
And, I alays carry a spare magazine. You’re right, forget about speedy reloading (although the user group site has some tips that will help a lot with that). A semi-auto without a functional magazine is an expensive and cumbersome single shot pistol; having a spare mag improves the odds on not having a single shot.
Comment by Homer — July 25, 2008 @ 7:32 pm
Don’t feel too bad about being able to see through the gap between your P-11’s slide and frame. I can see through the slide and frame of all three of my Glocks.
Comment by Montie — July 28, 2008 @ 6:27 pm
Thanks for the range report and the note on the gap. I carry my kel-tec .32 in a pocket holster I got off of ebay. It has a leather flap secured to a “normal” pocket holster. The flap totally hides the outline of the gun. I still want a p-11 for myself but I ended up spending my summer gun money on a old Norinco AK a buddy was selling a few days before you posted this review. But this fall ….
Comment by Phil-Z — August 3, 2008 @ 10:39 pm
Update here
Comment by Countertop — August 23, 2008 @ 5:00 pm